Episode 1
· 15:33
Hi, Matthew Robins Cox. How are you doing?
Mattie Cox:I'm awesome. How are you, Alexandra Elizabeth Cox?
Alex Cox:You know, terrified as we're preparing to release a show about you transitioning and our marriage and our mental illness. And when I say transitioning, I realize that even now people don't know that I'm talking about that you're transgender.
Mattie Cox:Hey. I'm transgender. Oh, surprise. Surprise.
Alex Cox:For a couple of years now, the 2 of us have been recording the process of you transitioning and both of us exploring what gender means, and I guess we're making a show about it.
Mattie Cox:Oh, we're definitely making a show about it.
Alex Cox:I said, can you pull over if you if so we can record for a second? No. You didn't. And I did.
Mattie Cox:And then you said, can you pull over? And I said, okay. Why? And are you gonna stress me out some more?
Alex Cox:And I said, yes. Probably.
Mattie Cox:But you didn't ask me if I wanted to record anything.
Alex Cox:Can I re I am recording? Can we record? Yes. I mean, I don't even know where to start because what would you say to someone who just said what's being transgender mean?
Mattie Cox:I would say that gender is, spectrum and is fluid, and some people are, some people identify as a different gender than they were assigned at birth, and other people identify as no gender.
Alex Cox:Aren't you a little freaked out that we're telling the story of, like, the the past 2 years of our marriage as you've transitioned?
Mattie Cox:Not even a little.
Alex Cox:Why? How does that not scare you?
Mattie Cox:Because I'm an oversharer. Hey. So this is Matt. I was instructed today. Uninterrupted.
Mattie Cox:Suggested by Alex that I sit and record my feelings. I've been feeling really dysphoric and out of place, and I sort of quit my job at a certain place, unexpectedly and not in the best way. And I was feeling really shitty and anxious this morning and so dysphoric, and I had a little talk about, with Alex. I have a consult tomorrow with doctor Garamoni who's a top surgeon in Florida, which I think is who we're going to go with. I think around 8 months would be a decent amount of time.
Mattie Cox:Like, I don't I really don't wanna wait a year. It's been kinda rough. I'm not gonna lie. I like sharing my life with people. I like being open.
Mattie Cox:And especially if something like this were to help people, then I would definitely wanna and even if it doesn't, I just I don't know. I put who I am on my sleeve, and if people don't like it, then, you know, whatever.
Alex Cox:I know. I I think I just keep putting it off because I'm afraid the thing is I don't care if people judge me. I'm very protective of you, and I worry about you.
Mattie Cox:I don't care if people judge me either.
Alex Cox:Yeah. What kind of questions do you think we're going to get?
Mattie Cox:Do you have a penis?
Alex Cox:No. But, I mean, like, us as a a married couple because, you know, we lived the first well, I mean, can you even say that you lived your life as a lesbian from birth? Because you have no concept of gender sexuality. I popped
Mattie Cox:out of the womb with half my head shaved, engages, pink hair, a nose ring.
Alex Cox:The I mean, exactly. Presenting as gay, you already get the question of, oh, who's the man and who's the woman? But now people are genuinely going to ask who's the man and who's the woman, and I guess you're the man now?
Mattie Cox:I'm just gonna say we're people. Why does it matter?
Alex Cox:Yeah. Well, I it's just a question I get all the time, and I don't know how to answer it anymore.
Mattie Cox:That's it. That's it. That's how you answer it. You say, we're partners. We're equals.
Mattie Cox:And that's it. You drop it.
Alex Cox:And then they're like, but no. Really? Who's who's?
Mattie Cox:And then I'm like, no. Really? It doesn't matter.
Alex Cox:I was helping with a live show tonight for work, and we were talking about our significant others, and I referred to you as my husband.
Mattie Cox:Why can't you just say my spouse?
Alex Cox:I normally do, but I thought I You
Mattie Cox:say my wife all the time.
Alex Cox:Not around new people because
Mattie Cox:then it About 80% of the time you do.
Alex Cox:Really? Mhmm.
Mattie Cox:And I honestly wish, especially around people that weren't our friends, that you would say spouse.
Alex Cox:I can do that.
Mattie Cox:Because they get really confused. Well But I don't wanna have to Poop on them. Well, yeah. And I don't wanna have to explain it to strangers.
Alex Cox:Which is why.
Mattie Cox:Would be great.
Alex Cox:Right. No. Exactly. I've never
Mattie Cox:asked you to use husband ever. But do you but I think no. I'd like you to use spouse. But why not husband? Because I've never wanted you to use husband.
Mattie Cox:Why not? Because it's weird. Why is it weird? Because it's a gross patriarchal word.
Alex Cox:I do like saying my wife.
Mattie Cox:I know. But again
Alex Cox:My wife.
Mattie Cox:For strangers, that's confusing and you should just say spouse. I and you are Don't say you do because you don't actually.
Alex Cox:I I agree with you 80% of the time since you've come out, I have.
Mattie Cox:I would say even in the last 3 months, whenever we go out, you say wife and I cringe. You cringe? Yeah. You say wife a lot
Alex Cox:when we're around people we don't know. There's no excuse for me doing that, and I'm sorry. It's okay. Again It's not okay.
Mattie Cox:It's just it's just around strangers. I would like you to not. That's all.
Alex Cox:I know. And I think I've been aware of it, which is why I tried husband tonight and was like,
Mattie Cox:ugh. Yeah. And you never have to use that word.
Alex Cox:Are you okay with using spouse for me too? Yeah. Of course. I guess it is the equality thing. Like, I've never wanted to be a man's wife, but I will be your spouse.
Alex Cox:You know what I mean?
Mattie Cox:Yeah. I know.
Alex Cox:I have to say, you being trans is like one of the least interesting things about you.
Mattie Cox:I mean, I hope so because it's not like I got while I am proud to be trans, I it's not like I go out in the street and I'm like, ah, yes. Today, I feel the transness. I am the tran.
Alex Cox:I mean, who who's even going to listen to this? Who do you think this is for?
Mattie Cox:I hopefully think it's for people who want to learn more about exploring gender, honestly.
Alex Cox:When people say, are you a man? Is that do you say yes or no?
Mattie Cox:I mean, it depends on where I we've talked about this before. It depends on where I am in the situation. I, if they understand and are edumacated educated on queer culture, then I say trans masculine. If not, then I say FTM and I am a man and my name is Matt. Around people who understand or trying to understand that it's queer, gender fluid, trans masculine.
Mattie Cox:So it depends on who I am around in the situation.
Alex Cox:I I just I don't know. I whenever I try to make something, I want it to be something that 12 year old me would like because 12 little queer, unknowing 12 year old Alex is lonely and sad and confused. And I I I is it too lofty a goal to think that maybe this will help somebody?
Mattie Cox:Heck no. I think, like, listening back on a lot of stuff that we've recorded, so much of it is breaking down, like, gender stereotypes and, emotions regarding gender and, like, how we grew up and things like that. A lot of our recordings, when I listen back, I'm like, this has to be helpful to someone. I don't identify as a binary man, but I also don't want to be seen as, like, classically feminine and more on the masculine side. Like, I would have no problem on days that I am comfortable in my masculinity and the way I look putting on, like, some mascara.
Mattie Cox:And, like, every day I put on, like, cover up to hide my acne. And a lot of people on Tumblr are like, oh, you won't pass. Don't do that. Guys have acne. They don't cover up their face.
Mattie Cox:But that's what makes me feel comfortable. Like, that's just toxic BS masculinity right there.
Alex Cox:You don't always wanna be seen as fully masculine?
Mattie Cox:Yes. But gender is a spectrum. I am definitely more on the masculine side because that is how I feel more comfortable presenting myself. But and I prefer hehim pronouns right now a lot. But I wouldn't mind.
Mattie Cox:And I think eventually, I'll be fine with theythem. And I've just been and, like, I think as I am more comfortable in my masculinity, I'm more comfortable with wearing, like, tighter fitting underwear and stuff that shows off my body more. And like so yeah. I am not a binary man.
Alex Cox:People are so afraid to ask questions of people who are gender queer, of people who are trans, even now people who are gay. And it's not the job of the queer community to, like, educate everybody about gender and sexuality, but someone has to. And I don't know if we're the best people too, but we can try.
Mattie Cox:I think we're badass, and we might not be the best people, but I think that we can definitely make a positive impact.
Alex Cox:You're you're making it sound so good.
Mattie Cox:But and it's not necessarily that it's good or the best, but I think it's genuine and raw and honest.
Alex Cox:Yeah. But I don't like those things.
Mattie Cox:Well, they're already there.
Alex Cox:I know. What's it been like recording your transition with me? Like, as we record this, it's been, what, 2 years? Almost.
Mattie Cox:I mean, it's been longer than 2 years that we've been recording. It's been, at times, frustrating, at times helpful and cathartic and a great release of emotions, and at times really educational.
Alex Cox:What do you mean by educational? I read stuff and
Mattie Cox:I learn stuff and I explore more about gender because of this podcast. And I learn more about you and how you're feeling about gender because of this podcast.
Alex Cox:What do you think is the first thing people should know about folks who are transgender?
Mattie Cox:Trans people are people. We're just people. I'm Maddie Cox. And I'm Alex Cox. This is a show about gender, our minds, and transitions.
Alex Cox:Welcome to 2 Headed Girl. We really appreciate you checking out this first episode, and we hope you listen more in the future. The music you heard is from Seth Boyer's album Half Lonely. Special thanks to our friends, Cathy Campbell, Margaret Blackburn, Mark Bramhill, Cara Fagan, Kevin Budnick, and to our cats who stopped stepping over our keyboards long enough for us to finish editing. If you'd like to hear more, head over to 2 headed girl dot f m or subscribe anywhere you find your podcasts, including our favorite independent app, Overcast.
Alex Cox:If you could leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever, we'd really, really appreciate it. And if you wanna be really nice, you could leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever. Please reach out to us to tell us what you think, ask us questions, or, you know, send memes. We're at 2 headed girl f m on Twitter or email us at 2 headed girl f m at g mail dot com. Thanks again for listening.
Mattie Cox:Why again?
Alex Cox:Because we're gonna keep doing it, and we're gonna get it good. And yeah.
Mattie Cox:I feel like we're on Veep right now where she has to do the same shit over and over again in front of the morning shows. And she's like, because we are of America, we are united, and there are states. That's gonna be the joke that goes to the end
Alex Cox:of this. God. You know me too well and my editing style much too well.
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